Is this cheating??

Joined: Oct 13, 2005 Posts: 723

I was wondering if you would consider this cheating. First of all, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPTwGSrjsgo

It got me wondering about my own gaming experience because I would get very frustrated playing when I couldn't hit an elephant with a brick from 3 feet away, especially as I can shoot the balls off a fly from 200m in real life. So I did a bit of research and came across this on Tweakguides:

Quote:

Usersettings.con

This file is found under your \Program Files\EA Games\Battlefield 2\mods\bf2\Settings directory. There are two particular settings of interest here which are reported to help reduce the inaccurate feel /hit detection of weapons fire in BF2:

SettingsManager.floatSet GSDefaultLatencyCompensation 0.100000

This setting controls latency (or 'lag') compensation, which involves the game attempting to offset the delay between information being sent from your machine to the server and back again (as measured in milliseconds by your Ping). In games without client-side latency compensation, you have to lead your target by a certain amount, since whenever you fire a weapon your bullets will actually register in the game world with a delay equal to your Ping. In BF2, whenever you fire a weapon, whatever appears in your crosshairs at that particular moment is registered as being hit, regardless of where they actually are at that point in time. This removes the need to predict where your target will be based on ping delay, and makes the game feel more responsive. However it can also introduce quirks like ducking behind a wall and still being hit.

In any case, this setting controls the default latency compensation applied, and the normal value is 0.100000 = 100ms. Some people claim that by adjusting this value to match your average ping in the servers you play, it can improve hit detection. For example, if you typically have a 50ms Ping, setting this to 0.050000 should improve the feeling of accuracy in the game. To be honest having experimented with this setting in isolation I didn't notice much difference either way. I believe the latency compensation is actually dynamic, only starting at the default value given in this setting, and adjusting to match your average ping over time. However even if it isn't, in general you can try to match your Ping with this setting to see the results. Note that lowering this setting well below or above your average Ping will only add to lag and may decrease your accuracy at best, so stick with keeping it equal to the Ping you get on most servers.

SettingsManager.U32Set GSInterpolationTime 100

Interpolation is a technique used to increase the smoothness of an online game. Basically interpolation is the prediction of where a particular moving object or character is currently located in the game world, based on data received on where they were and where they are. For example if an enemy soldier is running across the screen, interpolation allows their movement to appear fluid, calculating their predicted movement across the screen even though your computer is receiving only periodic updates of where they actually are. So instead of seeing a person jerkily warping from point to point, you see smooth animated motion all the way along. This especially helps to keep things smooth if/when packets are momentarily lost between the server and you; the game knows where the player currently is, where they were a moment ago, and calculates and displays the movements in between.

By default, Battlefield 2 appears to have a 100 millisecond buffer for interpolation. The problem with this is that while making things appear smoother, it also means that when firing upon a fast-moving object you may miss where they actually are as you're effectively facing an additional 100ms delay. At least that's the theory, and in general in my experimentation I found slightly improved hit detection results (and no noticeable increase in jerkiness) by using a lower value of 50 or even 30 for this setting. Note however that this variable should not be set too low (and certainly not a value of 0) as it will result in increased warping/jerky movements, and if you generally have a ping higher than 100 you shouldn't lower this setting. For those who do try this, also remember that the improvement from lowering this setting is not dramatic, since we're talking a difference of say 50ms (1/20th of a second). However particularly in situations where your opponent(s) are moving fast and/or erratically your accuracy should be noticeably improved.

It is important to understand that the generally inaccurate feel of most weapons in BF2 is intentional, as realism has been sacrificed for the sake of gameplay. Techniques to steady your aim such as going prone and using short bursts can help improve hit rates. Furthermore it appears that much of the time the lack of hit registration is due to lost packets. I've noticed the Battlefield series suffers quite a bit from packet loss, often manifesting as serious warping or jerkiness, getting caught against walls or other barriers, and incidents where you can appear to be firing at an unmoving target at point blank range and still somehow miss with most bullets; information is being lost to/from the server.

The key thing to note about both settings above is that unfortunately neither I nor anyone else knows for sure what the real story is - only EA/DICE know the truth about how their netcode works, and they've stated nothing to clarify these settings. What I've written above is based on my own experimentation, understanding and research about these settings. For the most part I haven't found any problems with PunkBuster by using the recommended settings above, though some servers may be very strict and not allow these values to be changed. If altering these values seems to make things worse for you, or you experience more jerkiness, lag or disconnections, reset them to the defaults shown above and leave them be.

So I decided to play about a bit, as you do, and tried editing the usersettings.con file and, after experimenting discovered that by changing the latency compensation to read:

SettingsManager.floatSet GSDefaultLatencyCompensation 0.000000 ( The tweakguides above suggests it dynamically changes to match your average ping but thats not what I found. I checked this setting over a number of games and it did not move from the default setting at all, so I manually played around with it)

and the interpolation time to read:

SettingsManager.U32Set GSInterpolationTime 60

I can now shoot the balls off a MOVING fly at 200m in game.

Your thoughts on the matter appreciated.

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:33 pm

Interesting Find.

It makes me think though, as numorous times i have been in a situation where I get killed from 1 shot, from what I would class as very dificult manouver.

Confused

Joined: Jul 02, 2005 Posts: 1414

People play around with those kinda settings in all games, aslong as it doesn't make you appear to lag really bad to other players or remove things like fog or trees ect to help u see people that can't see you then i don't see a problem with it, people change their rates etc in CSS and Cod2 to improve performance and considering people live in different places , diff distances away from things ect u sometimes HAVE to adjust ur latency settings otherwise u don't stand a chance. Only things i really see as cheating is aimbots / wallhacks etc.

Joined: Jul 10, 2006 Posts: 494

Its cheating and if a person changes these settings they are cheating.

Community Founder Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 2553

Quote:

Its cheating and if a person changes these settings they are cheating.

I agree changing settings like this from the default is cheating even if through normal play players dont get lag they will still use these settings to gain an advantage.
Cheers
|2es-mrix

Joined: Oct 13, 2005 Posts: 723

mrix wrote:

Quote:

Its cheating and if a person changes these settings they are cheating.

I agree changing settings like this from the default is cheating even if through normal play players dont get lag they will still use these settings to gain an advantage.
Cheers
|2es-mrix

I have to say I feel a bit of a cheat as well by doing it, although I did wonder if it was a bit of a placebo effect; by altering something it made me feel it made a difference when it probably didn't. Anyway I have reset to the default settings as it just didn't feel right, as this post shows, I just couldn't do it! if it DID make a difference and anyone died at my hand because of it I apologise Embarassed

Joined: May 21, 2006 Posts: 221

Without any doubt in my mind this is a form of cheating
We all know lots of people ‘tweak’ game files etc, especially in CS, but it doesn’t legitimatize it!

Joined: Feb 06, 2007 Posts: 13

i dont see it as cheating,i feel cheated ! shouldnt there be some sort of dynamic correction for these settings as you play?,so many times have i shot people seen the puff of impact on them and not got the hit,

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:41 am

This is a real tricky one, im sure people will verify me as an honest player, i hate all forms of exploits in games. However with this there is a slightly different argument, if EA were to give you the option of setting you average ping in the options, and by doing this your latency file changed accordingly, this is just the same thing. I think i stand by what cyrus is saying, however i was unaware of this point until now!

Basically if everyone did this you would feel less cheated when you got shot after you had clearly been hitting the person all the time they are running at you!

Plus it also stands to reason that by having a 24mb connection with a very small ping that you too could be called a cheat, as you are not playing on a level playing field, your latency is a lot lower. I have noticed this myself, my ping is now around 20-30 whereas before it was always 16. This has had a big effect on where i have to aim!

The flip side to this is if you have played 500+ hours on the old settings then changing them is probably not gunna help you, all it means is when you judge a shot from distance or at a moving target you will have to aim differently.

Where i can see it being a big advantage is with the TV missile and i would wager champuss etc know about all these settings!

LT!

Joined: May 21, 2006 Posts: 221

I appreciate where LT is coming from, and do agree to some extent.
However, the rules of engagement for players on BF2 ranked servers will be broken if this file is tampered with.
If the adjustments could be made within the official game configuration panel then fine, however, one has to change values in one of the games core files, as such it’s a cheat!
It may seem harmless but where do you draw the line for tweaking game files to enhance ones gaming experience?
EA have taken the stance that no tweaks of this nature are acceptable.
Indeed one can clearly infer from their rules of engagement policy specifically relating to to section 3, rules and policies applying to all players on ranked servers, that changing a core game file is forbidden! Hackers beware!

3.1.1 Players may not change (hack) any core games files or effectively change game settings by employing external programs or cheats for the purposes of giving themselves an unfair advantage over other players. This would include but not limited to:

(a) MSX and other 3rd party software.

(b) Modification of weapons code, aka Tank turrets exploit.

(c) CVAR hacks which would make players appear Neon

(d) CVAR hacks that let players see thru walls or buildings

(e) Mini-Map hack so all players are visible

(f) Modification of Player Names which would alter their size or colors.

Community Founder Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 2553

Through all games over the years people try to change their files to basically gain an advabtage anyway they can, They will change them to the point where the anti cheats programs will not quite detect them but it will still give them that edge over others.
I have only ever played the default like most people should and anything else is unfair!
Cheers
|2es-mrix

Joined: Jan 02, 2006 Posts: 130

LT an honest play lol he has more hacks than a blind woodsman in a forest..lol

only joking mate, i agree with mrix anything different from standard is a form of cheating.

Joined: Oct 13, 2005 Posts: 723

fatboymicrochip wrote:

here, on the subject of cheating (and slightly off topic, but relevant to a degree) why doesn't our server have random PB screenshots being taken? i'm pretty sure if we put in our welcome banner that random PB screenies were being taken that people who didn't want to be caught wouldn't stay for long. it would also give other players a bit of security.

any reason not to?

Open the console while in the game and type this

pb_getss

and you can take your own screenshot. Come out of game and go to C:\Battlefield 2\pb\scrnshot and look at your picture. It's the same command PB use anyway.

To get back on topic, thanks for your comments. There are obviously many opinions on this matter but I also feel it is cheating despite being able to see both sides of the arguement. One thing I have discovered though is where to shoot to hit moving targets now to compensate for my ping. I hope your not too angry with me, what started out as an experiment in good faith became an issue over cheating without intention. It never stopped me being killed either Laughing

Joined: Feb 06, 2007 Posts: 13

have i missread the article,i got the impression that the game compensates for the delay between host and servers using some set parameters,using a fomula based on a ping of 100, if changing the sums to there correct amounts in any one gaming instance im cheating! so to not cheat i have to move a couple a hundred of miles away to get my ping up and make the sums actually relevant to my game instance?or edit it to what it should be.and how is aiming ,shooting and actually hitting what your seeing cheating oppossed to the buttfcuk of aiming,shooting and visually hitting what your seeing ,but not damaging! and ive had a go on with these settings,and as a player who's primary method of killing other than claymores is a single shot, im under the impression it works,it dosent aim ,lead or pull trigger for me but when i see the puff on there bodies im now getting little crosses too,or is it the fact if changed a factory setting to optimize my gaming for in that case i been cheating ages for i have to edit bits for it run at my lcd's widescreen resolution.

Joined: Jul 02, 2005 Posts: 1414

lol...

Well tbh i have never even messed with my bf2 settings unless they are in the menu, ie gfx etc, and like i said, anything that appears to make you lag to someone else is considered cheating because it's harder for them to hit you because of ur changes. the only thing i was saying is not cheating is changing any settings that might improve ur ping or ur communication to the game server to help ur gaming experience.
Like in COD2 for example, you can change ur rate and near enough everyone changes theirs from 5000 to 25000 because it helps with lag caused by punkbuster ect.
There's a thin line between cheating and adjusting and alot of people take it too far unfortunately, i guess there are alot of things that could be considered cheating but the main ones that get on my tits are wallhackers and aimbots.